DELPHI, Ind. – For the first time, the public is hearing convicted Delphi murderer Richard Allen in his own words, including confessions made to his wife while he was held in prison.
Trial exhibits showing Allen’s interviews with police on Oct. 13, 2022, and Oct. 26, 2022, have been released. YouTuber Tom Webster is among those who requested the material and received it.
Webster also acquired copies of the prison phone calls where Allen can be heard confessing to the killings — though Allen’s attorneys long argued he wasn’t in the right state of mind when he made these confessions.
In a video posted on Monday, Webster spent more than five hours going through the exhibits, which include a series of phone calls Allen made to his wife and mother, Allen’s interview with prosecutor’s office investigator Steve Mullin and Carroll County investigator Tony Liggett, and another interview with Indiana State Police investigator Jerry Holeman.
The material was part of Allen’s nearly monthlong trial, which ended with a conviction in November. About a month later, he was sentenced to 130 years for the February 2017 murders of Abby Williams and Libby German near the Monon High Bridge.
Jurors and court observers viewed the exhibits at the trial. However, cameras were not allowed in the courtroom, meaning this marks the first time the public at large has been able to see and hear Allen.
Interview from Oct. 13, 2022
The Oct. 13, 2022, interview has been described at length in trial notes and reporter descriptions. The entire video was shown in court. However, the release marks the first time people can observe Allen’s demeanor and compare his voice to the infamous “Bridge Guy” video at the center of the investigation.
The interview with Mullin and Liggett starts with the investigators informing him he’s not under arrest and can leave at any time. Allen makes a joke about leaving right away before Mullin reads him his Miranda rights. Allen then signs the consent documents.
The investigators review Allen’s February 2017 interview with Dan Dulin, a conservation officer with the Indiana Department of Resources who assisted with the Delphi murders investigation.
Allen, of his own accord, had approached police days after the murders to say he’d been on the bridge. He told Dulin he was on the trail between 1:30 p.m. on 3:30 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017.
He said he passed three girls and described one of them as being taller. He believed she may have been babysitting the other girls and says it looked like they may have been sisters.
Allen provides Mullin and Liggett with his full name, his age, birthdate, address, email address and phone number. He also discusses his family and health history, which includes a 2010 heart attack, a history of depression, anxiety and high blood pressure.
He then goes through his work history, telling the investigators he worked at Walmart for about a decade and was on the managerial track before he decided to transfer to CVS. He said management jobs amounted to “numbers on a spreadsheet” and decided he wanted to do something else.
He also talks about his educational background and service in the Army National Guard (he achieved the rank of sergeant). He had no arrest history.
Allen’s recollection of Feb. 13, 2017
The conversation soon turns to the events of Feb. 13, 2017. Allen says he spent the morning in Mexico, Indiana, to visit his mother. When she and his sisters wanted to go out to lunch, Allen says he “wasn’t about that” and returned to his home in Delphi, where he grabbed a jacket and went to trails.
It was warm for February, and Allen tells investigators he doesn’t typically walk on the trail in the winter. He would typically do that in the summer months, and the frequency of his visits was sporadic—sometimes he’d visit once a month, other times, he’d go there twice in a week.
By Allen’s recollection, he arrived at the trails around 12 p.m., walked down to the Monon High Bridge and went out a “little ways” to see the fish. He also said he sat on a bench and waited for a few minutes before leaving. He estimated he left around 1 p.m. or 1:30 p.m. and certainly no later than 1:45 p.m.
His recollection in 2022 differed from what he told the DNR officer. During his 2017 interview, he said he’d been on the trail between 1:30 p.m. and 3:30 p.m., which would put him squarely within the state’s murder timeline.
Allen appears to have trouble explaining exactly where he parked, pointing to a few different spots on a map presented to him by Mullin. He’s also uncertain of the route he took to and from the trails and couldn’t say exactly which car he’d driven that day. At the time, Allen had a black Ford Focus SE and a gray Ford 500.
When asked why he initially came forward in 2017, Allen says he’d told his wife he was on the trail on the day of the murders. She urged him to go talk to investigators in case he had information that could help the case.
He went to the sheriff’s office and gave his name and number. Dulin, the DNR officer, ended up being assigned to the tip and interviewed Allen in the parking lot of a local grocery store. He recalls Dulin asking some questions, examining his phone and jotting down information from the phone.
He can’t recall precisely where he parked, although he defers to the information he’d given to Dulin in 2017. At the time, he said he’d parked by the old CPS building.
He also tells the investigators he was looking at a stock ticker on his phone. He was always checking the stock account, he said, joking that he was “trying to get rich.”
The investigators ask him what he wore on Feb. 13, 2017. He says blue jeans and a jacket.
“I’ve had Carhartt jackets over the years,” he says. “The one was blue. One was black. Probably back then, it would’ve been a black one. It had a hood built into it. So, it was just a black zip-up. I don’t even think it was a Carhartt. It was an off brand, but it was like a Carhartt.”
Allen always kept a hat in his coat and believed he wore one on that day.
“It would’ve been like, I don’t know what you’d call it, a skullcap. Not a big, fluffy hat, but a small hat.”
As for footwear, he said it would’ve been old tennis shoes, work boots or some “old combat boots.”
Focus on Allen’s 2017 cellphone
The conversation soon turns to Allen’s cellphone. His October 2022 phone was a Google Pixel, but investigators wanted to know if he still had his phone from 2017.
Allen didn’t know.
“If I do, it’s in the closet somewhere. I’m sure [my wife has] recycled it by now.”
He wasn’t sure when he got his current phone, although he didn’t think he’d had it for a “super long time.”
During a search of his home hours later, investigators found multiple older electronic devices and phones. They were not able to locate the phone he carried in 2017.
Allen and the investigators talk about wireless plans and phones in general. Allen used Ting for wireless service, a low-cost carrier.
When asked about his current phone, Allen says he uses a fingerprint or passcode to unlock it.
‘Not going to be somebody’s fall guy’
It’s at this point, however, that he starts to realize Mullin and Liggett are looking at him as a suspect in the Delphi murders.
“I’m not going to be somebody’s fall guy,” he says. “I thought we were talking…for information I have that might be helpful.”
Mullin responds they’re trying to gather as much information as they can and looking to clear him.
“It’s been so long, and like I haven’t thought about this much, and I don’t want to be somebody’s fall guy,” Allen says. “We’re going to try to make pieces of a puzzle fit somewhere they don’t fit so we can close this thing.”
He insists he’s not questioning the integrity of the investigators.
“That’s where I’m at. It doesn’t seem like a simple conversation we’re having,” Allen says. “It seems more like you think I might have done it.”
During the earlier parts of the interview, Allen seemed calm and helpful, even joking at times with Mullin and Liggett. At this point, while he remains calm, he sounds more guarded. Mullin asks Allen if they can search his home and car.
That’s a bridge too far.
“I guess I’m starting to feel more like your main lead or something here, and I’m not going to do that,” Allen says.
Liggett insists investigators are going back to the very beginning and trying to talk to everyone about what they remember. It’s their intention to go through Allen’s home and car so they can clear him.
“If you get to the point where you think I might have actually done this, then if you want to get a warrant, search my house, my car, my [coughs] orifices or whatever, that’s fine. I don’t’ mind you looking at my phone or whatever,” Allen says.
“I’m not having police go through my house and stuff,” he says. “News leaks. I don’t need that kind [of attention].”
Allen changes mind on phone search
Allen initially consents to a search of his phone and even provides the investigators with the passcode. However, when presented with the consent form, he declines to sign it, telling Mullin and Liggett he wants to talk to his wife before committing to anything.
“I don’t want to be associated with this thing [the Delphi murders], obviously, more than anybody else does,” Allen says. “Am I an angel of a person? No? I mean, I’m like anybody else. Maybe I don’t want you looking at every website I’ve visited.”
When Liggett leaves, Mullin assures Allen they’re not trying to give him a hard time.
“I don’t want you to randomly think we’re coming after you,” Liggett says when he comes back.
Allen insists he wasn’t out on the trail until 3:30 p.m. It would’ve been 1:30 p.m. or 1:45 p.m. at the latest. He then reads over Dulin’s report. He’s originally said 1 p.m. to 3 p.m. in the initial tip. When he talked to Dulin, he clarified the timeline was 1:30 p.m. to 3:30 p.m.
That was back in 2017, just days after the murders.
In 2022, he said he left at 1:45 p.m. at the latest.
“We’re here because we haven’t found the guy that did this and I’m not going to turn into that guy. I don’t want to become the target of this,” Allen says. “I mean, there’s nothing that’s going to tie me to it. I’m not worried about that. To have people come and search my house and stuff… my wife doesn’t even know I’m here talking to people.”
He says he’ll look for the 2017 phone.
“I’m not saying you just want to label somebody. But, you know, I had nothing to do with it. I haven’t been a part of this investigation,” he says. “It’s a horrible thing, and I mean, I obviously don’t want to be any more involved in it than what I have to be. If I thought I had something that was useful, by all means, I’d give you anything I have. I just don’t know what’s going to be useful to you.”
He tells the investigators he doesn’t want anyone knowing that he talked to them. At that point, Mullin and Liggett leave. Allen, alone in the room, spends a few minutes glued to his phone.
‘Bridge Guy’ confrontation
When the investigators return, Mullin shows Allen a photo of a car captured on video near the Hoosier Harvestore. Mullin believes the car is Allen’s. He doesn’t deny that it’s his car.
The investigators then present him with the infamous photo of “Bridge Guy.” Widely circulated in the early days of the investigation, the photo is a still taken from a video Libby German recorded on her iPhone 6s.
Mullin points out that “Bridge Guy” is wearing clothes very similar to the ones Allen had described earlier during the interview. Mullin asks Allen if it’s him in the photo.
Allen scoffs. “If that was taken with the girl’s phone, that is absolutely not me. I mean, that’s not me. I never met these girls before, even if I thought it looked like me, if it’s taken with the girl’s phone, there’s no way it could be. I’ve never met them. I’ve never seen them.”
Allen says he tried to kill himself in the past and conceded he’s had psychological issues. But he’s dealt with those problems for a long time—they had nothing to do with the Delphi murders.
“I’ve been dealing with that for years. It’s not something new. It’s not something [like] I went out and killed the girls and now I have psychological problems.”
Things get contentious after that. Allen points out blue jeans are fairly common.
“I mean, I said I was wearing blue jeans. Now, I think blue jeans is a pretty common thing people wear. I said I was probably wearing a black or a blue coat. It could’ve been a Carhartt with a zip up and a hoodie. I’ve had black ones, I’ve had a blue one.”
Liggett returns to the car caught on surveillance video and holds up a picture for Allen.
“And you’re serious? You literally, you want me to, like, you want me to say that that’s my car?” Allen says, incredulous.
“It matches everything,” Liggett says. “That is your car. There’s zero doubt.”
“All right, well, we’re all done here,” Allen says.
Interview continues
Still, the interview continues, with Allen and Mullin talking over each other on several occasions. Mullin describes Allen as a “nice guy” and says they’re just trying to figure things out.
“This seems to have taken a turn,” Allen says. “I’ve got nothing to worry about. I’m not real concerned here, but your attitudes towards me have definitely changed and I don’t like the fact that it feels more like I’m being interrogated.”
After another exchange, Allen says, “I think we’re done.”
Mullin’s questioning, however, continues.
Allen again says the “Bridge Guy” photo isn’t him and accuses Mullin of trying to twist his words.
“The question is, is this you?” Mullin asks, pointing to the photo. At this point, Liggett has left the room.
“No,” Allen answers.
Mullin continues to press him.
“Good luck finding anything that points in that direction [of Allen being the murderer]. I mean, it’s not me. You’re not going to make me believe it’s me,” Allen says. “You’re not going to find anything that ties me to those murders. I’m not really that concerned. You went from trying to, I don’t know what you want to say, get my trust and then slowly lure me into telling you I killed somebody, and I’m not going to do it.”
Mullin insists he’s not trying to give Allen a hard time. But the evidence, he contends, means Allen is worth a second look.
“We’re done here. Arrest me or take me home,” Allen says.
Despite the ultimatum, the video continues.
“This is ridiculous,” Allen later says, examining the “Bridge Guy” photo. “We’ve all looked at this thing for months and years. To me, that doesn’t even look like a Carhartt coat.”
He tells Mullin he’s lost his trust and decries the whole thing as “stupid.”
“Now you’re pissing me off,” he tells Mullin. “Are you arresting me? Am I free to leave or not?”
“You were always free to leave,” Mullin replies.
“Thank you,” Allen says. “You’re an a******.”
Allen confesses in prison phone calls
Like the police interviews, a series of phone calls made to Allen’s wife and mother were part of the multiweek trial that ended in Allen’s conviction. Jurors heard these calls in which Allen told his wife, “I did it, I killed Abby and Libby.”
For the first time, the public can now hear Allen make those confessions and weigh the sincerity or lack thereof in his voice. These confessions were a point of contention in the trial as Allen’s attorneys pushed hard to discredit their legitimacy by pointing out Allen’s poor mental state. Jurors heard from doctors who noted that Allen appeared to be in a state of psychosis during stretches of his imprisonment while others in the prison thought Allen was exaggerating his mental duress.
Allen first appears to be weighing a confession in a call to his wife dated Nov. 14, 2022. This is not long after his arrest.
In this call, Allen tells his wife that he’s going to tell the investigators ” whatever they want me to tell them.”
“Whatever things they want me to say, I’ll just say it,” Allen says.
“No, no, no,” his wife protests.
Months later, on April 2, 2023, Allen tells his mother that he has accepted the Lord as his savior.
The next day, Allen calls his wife and tells her, “I did it. I killed Abby and Libby.”
Allen goes on to say he doesn’t know why he did it. His wife protests repeatedly telling him “No you didn’t” and saying “they are messing with your mind.”
Allen confessions range from the sure: “I definitely did it.” To the less sure: “Maybe I did. I did. I think I did.”
“Don’t you ever say you did it,” his wife says as she begins to cry.
“I think I did,” Allen answers.
Allen’s wife repeats that she believes they are messing with his mind and that he isn’t right.
“I just wish they’d kill me or let me apologize to the families at least,” Allen says.
Over a month later, Allen calls his wife on May 10, 2023. The call is similar to before with Allen confessing to the murders while his wife denies what he’s saying is true.
In a call to his mother made days before, on May 7, 2023, Allen says, “I’m just worried you guys aren’t going to love me because of the fact that I said that I did it.”
“Just saying you did it doesn’t mean you did it,” his mom argues.
“It does when I did,” Allen says.
Allen would go on to make these confessions in several more of the released prison calls. These include calls made on June 5 and June 11, 2023.
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